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Far from me to start yet another religious war, but on the blog a friend from the Italian User Group I found a very amusing cartoon about .NET and PHP in the enterprise (made by David Betz in February 2008), so I thought it would have been funny to repost it here.

DotNetPhpCartoon01

The original post seems to be unreachable but when I first saw it, I read that there should be other comic strips on that topic.

UPDATE: Seems like the original site is back to life, here is the second comic strip.

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posted on Saturday, August 23, 2008 12:19 PM

Comments on this entry:

# re: .NET vs PHP in the Enterprise comics strip

Left by anon at 8/23/2008 3:07 PM

lol. The name of that solution is Zend Framework.

# re: .NET vs PHP in the Enterprise comics strip

Left by Dave at 8/23/2008 8:08 PM

I thought microsoft was embracing Php - w drivers and providing access into the framework. Remember like it or not .net is about choices.

# re: .NET vs PHP in the Enterprise comics strip

Left by Dimitris-Ilias Gkanatsios at 8/24/2008 3:06 PM

.NET is far superior to Zend, obviously.

# re: .NET vs PHP in the Enterprise comics strip

Left by Craig at 8/25/2008 12:50 AM

I wasn't aware Zend did all that stuff. After a bit of googling I discovered it didn't.

# re: .NET vs PHP in the Enterprise comics strip

Left by jbland at 8/25/2008 5:05 PM

It's funny, but misses a lot. Language/platform zealotry is counterproductive no matter what side of the tracks the bombs are lobbied from.
i actually have a commit in PHP, and use both C#/.NET and Java at work. It allows me to offer a greater palette of possibilities to clients dependent on their requirements, including tools and libraries with no analog in the Microsoft world.

And concerning "Enterprise", i'll paraphrase the author of this article (java.dzone.com/news/nobody-thinks-theyre-an-enterp)
, anyone who uses that term is presumed to be talking bullsh*t until proven otherwise.

# re: .NET vs PHP in the Enterprise comics strip

Left by Phill at 8/25/2008 9:44 PM

MS only works in the M$ world, so no need for LAMP. Why get things that work at a great price (FREE) when you can pay for things that only work on 1/2 the time on one platform. Sounds like a great business case to me, LMAO.

If you think PHP sucks, great stick with your own crappy .NET

P.S. Don't compare Java to .NET, Java rocks and you get I am not a fan of .NET (So don't worry I won't be using it).

# re: .NET vs PHP in the Enterprise comics strip

Left by Buddy Lindsey at 8/25/2008 10:28 PM

hahaha, as a person that does php and C#/.NET I find this hilarious. Especially since I know a lot of php advocates that can't code for crap in a portable manner.

However, php isn't too bad, just looks ugly as hell.

# re: .NET vs PHP in the Enterprise comics strip

Left by Simone at 8/25/2008 10:38 PM

As I said, I didn't want to start yet another religious war, but probably some didn't get it :)
Anyway, if you read better the text, it's not against PHP, which is just another programming language, but against the average PHP programmer that doesn't even know what software design is and which the issues in software development are.
Well... actually this is true also for the average .NET developer :)

# re: .NET vs PHP in the Enterprise comics strip

Left by Chris Hardy at 8/25/2008 10:46 PM

It'll be good to see .Net and PHP swapped around cause as you say. I can work either way. No matter what you code in, PHP or .Net, if you're a bad programmer, you're a bad programmer.

# re: .NET vs PHP in the Enterprise comics strip

Left by bobdy at 8/26/2008 10:40 AM

High performance ... like rebooting the server after an update ? xD

# re: .NET vs PHP in the Enterprise comics strip

Left by McNaz at 8/26/2008 11:07 AM

"high performance, machine code compiled"... .Net (nothing more than a bloated vbrun.dll) is neither of those. It is an interpreted language, just like PHP, but with the trappings of a static language.

"Performance, machine code complied" = C/C++/Free Pascal/Ada/D/Assembler.

Nothing to see here except Microsoft oriented shilly drivel... just like the drivel on http://msdn.microsoft.com. Go ahead an read any page there to see the bullcrud that is coming out of Redmond:

* Visual Fox Pro: "is a powerful tool for quickly creating high-performance desktop, rich client, distributed client, client/server, and Web database applications"

* Access 2003: "Microsoft Access allows developers to create sophisticated solutions, extend data to the Web, and build database solutions faster."

Pick a few random pages out of http://msdn.microsoft.com and see for your self that Microsoft is just a marketing/sales company.

# re: .NET vs PHP in the Enterprise comics strip

Left by Steve at 8/26/2008 3:25 PM

For McNaz...

> "It is an interpreted language,
> just like PHP, but with the
> trappings of a static language."

Uhh... I actually use both, and it compiles nowhere near as inefficient as PHP. I know, because all I have to do it "View Dissassembly" inside Visual Studio and I can see exactly how each line was translated from MSIL into 0x86 code.

It's funny how critics often don't know what they're talking about... Hey! Just like the comic strip!

# re: .NET vs PHP in the Enterprise comics strip

Left by KiwiBastard at 8/26/2008 3:28 PM

McNaz: "Pick a few random pages out of http://msdn.microsoft.com and see for your self that Microsoft is just a marketing/sales company. "

Ok I will: blogs.msdn.com/.../...-synchronizationcontext.aspx - the marketing speak in there is sickening

msdn.microsoft.com/en-gb/library/ms152530.aspx - again just sickening marketing speak

Mate, take this and the cartoon in the manner it is intended. Otherwise you make yourself look like a cock.

# re: .NET vs PHP in the Enterprise comics strip

Left by znj at 8/26/2008 8:31 PM

"compile-time type checking"

I don't know if that guy knows, or is simply retarded, but PHP is a dynamic language. Which means people aren't turned off by the retarded striction of straightjacket languages.

Again, I don't know if he knows or is just retarded, but you don't need much performance for web sites. There's a library you might've heard of. It's written for a very slow dynamic language. It's called "Ruby on Rails" and is pretty popular or so I heard.

# re: .NET vs PHP in the Enterprise comics strip

Left by Maurio Quiros at 8/26/2008 9:35 PM

I've been using some web frameworks for over 8 years, I actually do a lot of asp.net and learning to use Django (best thing I ever seen so far for webdev), I've been in this type of conversation for years and like other topics in computer related stuff this is just another non ending story. I personally hate php but from personal taste perspective (I just dont like it), can you imagine how well you have to know all web frameworks to get to a non biased conclusion. My take here is respect each other and use whatever fits you better. Asp.net is awesome, but go check how many PHP applications are deployed on the web, just impossible to catch up.

# re: .NET vs PHP in the Enterprise comics strip

Left by Mazzulatore at 8/29/2008 11:12 AM

About the answers in the .net side, what was the DAL before Linq? how about an mvc framework? Testing framework? Inversion of control controller? Google and discover that .net is always the last in term of technology.

# re: .NET vs PHP in the Enterprise comics strip

Left by rohypnol at 9/4/2008 4:33 PM

You can't compare .NET to PHP as you can't compare Windows to Linux. They're completely different environments. It would take ages to write a complete portal in PHP (done it) and it would be completely pointless to write a simple multi-platform solution in .NET (the multi-platform kills it right from the start).
Windows is for "dumb" end-users, Linux is for geeks that like to be able to tweak everything and not have to reinstall their operating system if a program misbehaves. I am one of those "dumb" end-users that doesn't want to go through the hassle of finding drivers and tweaking everything, who needs everything to work out of the box. On the other hand, I enjoy the flexibility given by PHP in most (NOT ALL) cases.

# re: .NET vs PHP in the Enterprise comics strip

Left by Zing at 9/15/2008 5:38 AM

Compile-time type checking? Oh that's right, it's that legacy form of strong typing which was popular before Ruby and co, but which Java and C# are still quite fond of.

# re: .NET vs PHP in the Enterprise comics strip

Left by JMS at 9/18/2008 10:53 PM

"Pick a few random pages out of http://msdn.microsoft.com and see for your self that Microsoft is just a marketing/sales company. "

HA HA HA HA. Damn them for marketing and selling their frameworks! Damn them! They should be more like Apple and open up their systems...(oh wait)...ummm...they should be more like Canonical and not do sales and marketing...(oh wait.) Repeat each comparison ad nauseum.

# re: .NET vs PHP in the Enterprise comics strip

Left by Coder Blues at 9/19/2008 6:59 PM

Love the comic. Very funny. Can't say I agree 100% but funny nonetheless.

# re: .NET vs PHP in the Enterprise comics strip

Left by overdriver at 9/22/2008 11:03 AM

I like both as much. What I don't like about .NET are postbacks and webforms. What I don't like about PHP is that the OO-implementation is still not optimal.

# re: .NET vs PHP in the Enterprise comics strip

Left by David Betz at 9/25/2008 7:20 PM

I'm the author of the comic and it's not fiction. That's the same conversation I used to have time and time again with ignorant PHP developers. Every now and again I'll find a PHP developer who can actually spell his own product name, but it seems to be as rare as an IE or VB developer who can spell his own. Those who are qualified PHP developers are those who have looked deep into the PHP source code, understand the internal mechanics of Apache, have design-pattern (GRASP and GoF) skills, and know their database solution inside out. Short of this is the amateur.

However, most seem to just be "coders" who have absolutely no understanding of 90% of real world development (i.e. architecture and design). It's not about the technology. It's about the design principles behind your work. Having said that, I've never seen a solution to allow PHP libraries to be reused *without editing* in a desktop application. Even the Java and the, rather impressive, Adobe world (i.e. AIR) can boast this.

If you are going to slam .NET, you better be extremely prepared to defend your own product. If you have never studied your own source code, then it's probably a solid bet that you are not qualified for a well-focused scientific discussion on the subject (only amateurs do "religious wars"). As a former-linux hacker myself, I understand your technology to a certain degree (for some reason Linux guys wet their pants when the find out my preferred Linux distro is Debian, but would prefer to build it from scratch). In the same way, if you are going to slam .NET, make verifiable statements that we .NET experts can destroy. Be scientific or don't be at all. Making silly statements that suggest that ASP.NET is all about postbacks and webforms or extremely absurd statements like "[.NET] is an interpreted language, just like PHP, but with the trappings of a static language" gets no one anywhere and simply lowers your credibility.

If you don't actually understand .NET, then simply focus on defending your own system. Of course, this implies that you understand your own system. If you don't understand yourself, it's useless to begin to study your enemy, let alone study tactics against your enemy. So, if you cannot handle an introductory Q/A regarding your own system, perhaps it's time to stop engaging in battles.

Lastly, if you are not man/woman enough to throw your own system the window when it have been demonstrated to be inferior, then you are, again, not qualified for such discussions. If, in a discussion, all you do is laugh and make defensive childlike remarks, again, you are not qualified for such discussions. If you must hold on to your own system (be it a technology [PHP/.NET/Java], political party, religion, diet [Atkins/South Beach/Alkalization/Slim Fast], etc) despite its worthlessness, inferiority, or incorrectness or provide oddly timed laughter in a serious discussion or, more importantly, have severe blood pressure problems when discussing attacks on your system, then you are holding to a religion, not a science. The mark of a true scientist is that he or she is just as happy when proven wrong as when proven right as it gets the person closer to the truth. The focus needs to be on reality, not your own desires or that which makes you happy.

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